“If you understood everything I say, you’d be me.” ~ Mile Davis
Different individuals make for different individuals.
Culture is camouflage, outer wear, to an emperors robes extent.
But for for some it is when in Rome, or Vegas, in/solvent.
And not unoften its an or-else: “This is how we do it here.”
Miss Penny Lane, Almost Famous, But Only Made It Out To Vegas-Fatuous: “I need a new crowd.” She happy ending’d off to Morocco, where the massages are magical.
The most noticeable aspect of “greater good” emphases is, or should be, what a polished saddle & spurs that has been wherever & whenever. And the periodic catastrophic dismounts:
The world over Supermen, Nietzschean or otherwise, field vast Clark Kent Rollerball-polo teams once more into the breach of contract social snap-crackle-pop cervical spine splintering Goodbye To All That.
Again, & again, & again.
Ain’t no misanthrope-a-dopes round here. But pre-grill-preachin’ George Foremans we got - by the gazillions.
Carpal Tunnel Truth will continue to prevail - but I was just following QWERTY! - in its usual rearguard-wristguard action form.
THIS IS SPOT-ON, Chris: " I do believe our differences can at times be insurmountable and far greater than the well-meaning platitudes humanists want us to believe."
I'd love to hear more! (Or maybe you've already addressed it in previous stack(s)?) I'm relatively new to your terrific writing.
Looks like I need to read After Virtue. The moral relativism is on the rise. Although I have much reason to believe that it is artificially powered by organized trolling of those for whom truth is inconvenient. Aristotelean core values of truth, beauty and goodness/justice are still, in my belief, a centerpiece of European traditions even if philosophical discourse may diverge.
With this note I am referring to the following paragraph of yours: “ …our current ethical discourse is incoherent because it’s lost a foundation in a shared moral tradition (Aristotelian), can be seen in a lot of my recent writings, although in larval form. He is the opposite of a moral and cultural relativist, and I suspect he believes in a capital-t Truth, which is similar to Einstein and Gödel believing in an objective reality independent of the observer. “
From a top down perspective, it should be noted that the concept of nation state in East Asia was always as strong, if not stronger than even Europe through out history, I do often wonder if the artificial nature of how all but a few sub-Saharan African state came into being is a large part of this. And to a lesser extent India as well.
You (and Chris) might be interested in this book about the creation of a "modern" western nation-state in place of the older model nation state by Linbarger, who's grew up in early republican China. His father was a legal advisor to Sun Yat Sen and Linbarger went on to publish a lot of material on the function of propaganda and culture creation in state building. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/40350
A book from around 3rd century BC China (attributed to earlier but probably unrealistic.) wrote that people "Only knows honor and shame once they have sufficient clothing and food"
While that is a bit simplistic way of putting it, but certainly that is one aspect of what happened, another is simple demographic, noting that the periods when East Asia was also known to be pretty rude and wild place correlated strongly with when the Boomers were young men and women, obviously the correlation between crime and age is well known, but also the simple matter that was a time when the societies changed massively, most boomers were pretty educated while most of their parents didn't even have electricity and running water growing up.
As raised in a previous reply, There was a famous writer that wrote about "China" in the 1980s as being super rude and chaotic, of course that was the Republic in Taiwan, but she also grew up in communities made up almost exclusively of public workers in rural Taiwan and then left for the States after college, so it may simply been her own sample bias.
An antidote I've found to the "lousy books written by elite expats" problem is to focus on reading works in translation. I wasn't surprised to Google Yu Hua and find that he writes in Chinese. Of course something is lost in the translation process, and it's not necessarily the case that the books are better than those written in English (I'm in India where there is a thriving English literary scene in addition to the local language fiction), but on average I've found them to be more rewarding, with more interesting perspectives and sometimes different storytelling styles.
One of Yu Hua's books, To Live, was adapted into a movie I remember being a fantastic portrayal of pre- and post-revolutionary Chinese society.
I read a ton of books about China when I lived there--years later the main ones I remember are The Last Days of Old Beijing (former Peace Corps volunteer who worked at a school in Beijing, he wrote an even better book later, after he moved to the rural north, called In Manchuria), Leftover Women, and Factory Girls. In case you want something to read on the flight. The last two are women-focused, but give great general insight into the interaction between traditonal culture and modern social mobility.
Good luck in China, hope you enjoy it! It can be a hard place to travel, but sticking to one city you should avoid most of that. Just make sure you have one of the good apps for translating menus ;)
Have you been to Beijing before? I'll be curious to read your thoughts.
I flew Turkish Airlines to Istanbul in 1991. As you know, in Turkish it is Turk Hava Yolari or THY, which we deemed They Hate You airlines: "They hate to fly and it shows." No food or water was served for the entire flight - apparently this was normal bcs all the Turks knew to pack rations. Everyone was smoking. The air circulation was substandard and it was so hot in there. And someone had chickens in the overhead. But my hands were regularly doused with Limon Kolonya, so, you know, it was all ok.
I studied philosophy in grad school and now write/edit for a living, so I can confidently say that if you felt bogged down while reading After Virtue, it was MacIntyre's problem, not yours.
Reading After Virtue is like walking through a snowdrift, eg lines such as "Aristotle's teleology presupposes a metaphysical biology." <insert eyeroll emoji> I want to tell philosophers who write like this, "So you clearly don't want people to read your work. Or are you trying to make the reader feel dumb?" So many phil. writers like MacIntyre obscure already complex ideas with unnecessarily dense wordsmithing. It's unfortunate.
Yes. Clarity is not his strength. When he tries to use examples to flesh out his ideas, they end up being more confusing than enlightening -- which is a writing sin!
But if they don't help elucidate, they do make it very compelling. IMO, there's little philosophy as exciting as MacIntyre. If you ever want a reading partner on this, feel free to reach out. I've also stumbled through this multiple times, and its the type of thing that benefits from a close read and talking through.
Yes more book recommendations. The country of Georgia gets little attention ; you can change that a little: the birthplace of Stalin and, Georgians insist, of wine as well; located on the Old Silk Road; with a language and alphabet unknown elsewhere; balanced unhappily between Russia and the West; you should visit.
Bartleby the Scrivener is one of my favorite books! It’s short too… could, as I recall, be easily read on a flight the length of LA to NY ✈️📚
Speaking of great Chinese literature, have you read any Lu Xun?
“If you understood everything I say, you’d be me.” ~ Mile Davis
Different individuals make for different individuals.
Culture is camouflage, outer wear, to an emperors robes extent.
But for for some it is when in Rome, or Vegas, in/solvent.
And not unoften its an or-else: “This is how we do it here.”
Miss Penny Lane, Almost Famous, But Only Made It Out To Vegas-Fatuous: “I need a new crowd.” She happy ending’d off to Morocco, where the massages are magical.
The most noticeable aspect of “greater good” emphases is, or should be, what a polished saddle & spurs that has been wherever & whenever. And the periodic catastrophic dismounts:
The world over Supermen, Nietzschean or otherwise, field vast Clark Kent Rollerball-polo teams once more into the breach of contract social snap-crackle-pop cervical spine splintering Goodbye To All That.
Again, & again, & again.
Ain’t no misanthrope-a-dopes round here. But pre-grill-preachin’ George Foremans we got - by the gazillions.
Carpal Tunnel Truth will continue to prevail - but I was just following QWERTY! - in its usual rearguard-wristguard action form.
My recommendation for you is “The Burnout Society” by Byung-Chul Han, great book.
THIS IS SPOT-ON, Chris: " I do believe our differences can at times be insurmountable and far greater than the well-meaning platitudes humanists want us to believe."
I'd love to hear more! (Or maybe you've already addressed it in previous stack(s)?) I'm relatively new to your terrific writing.
Looks like I need to read After Virtue. The moral relativism is on the rise. Although I have much reason to believe that it is artificially powered by organized trolling of those for whom truth is inconvenient. Aristotelean core values of truth, beauty and goodness/justice are still, in my belief, a centerpiece of European traditions even if philosophical discourse may diverge.
With this note I am referring to the following paragraph of yours: “ …our current ethical discourse is incoherent because it’s lost a foundation in a shared moral tradition (Aristotelian), can be seen in a lot of my recent writings, although in larval form. He is the opposite of a moral and cultural relativist, and I suspect he believes in a capital-t Truth, which is similar to Einstein and Gödel believing in an objective reality independent of the observer. “
From a top down perspective, it should be noted that the concept of nation state in East Asia was always as strong, if not stronger than even Europe through out history, I do often wonder if the artificial nature of how all but a few sub-Saharan African state came into being is a large part of this. And to a lesser extent India as well.
You (and Chris) might be interested in this book about the creation of a "modern" western nation-state in place of the older model nation state by Linbarger, who's grew up in early republican China. His father was a legal advisor to Sun Yat Sen and Linbarger went on to publish a lot of material on the function of propaganda and culture creation in state building. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/40350
A book from around 3rd century BC China (attributed to earlier but probably unrealistic.) wrote that people "Only knows honor and shame once they have sufficient clothing and food"
While that is a bit simplistic way of putting it, but certainly that is one aspect of what happened, another is simple demographic, noting that the periods when East Asia was also known to be pretty rude and wild place correlated strongly with when the Boomers were young men and women, obviously the correlation between crime and age is well known, but also the simple matter that was a time when the societies changed massively, most boomers were pretty educated while most of their parents didn't even have electricity and running water growing up.
As raised in a previous reply, There was a famous writer that wrote about "China" in the 1980s as being super rude and chaotic, of course that was the Republic in Taiwan, but she also grew up in communities made up almost exclusively of public workers in rural Taiwan and then left for the States after college, so it may simply been her own sample bias.
An antidote I've found to the "lousy books written by elite expats" problem is to focus on reading works in translation. I wasn't surprised to Google Yu Hua and find that he writes in Chinese. Of course something is lost in the translation process, and it's not necessarily the case that the books are better than those written in English (I'm in India where there is a thriving English literary scene in addition to the local language fiction), but on average I've found them to be more rewarding, with more interesting perspectives and sometimes different storytelling styles.
One of Yu Hua's books, To Live, was adapted into a movie I remember being a fantastic portrayal of pre- and post-revolutionary Chinese society.
I read a ton of books about China when I lived there--years later the main ones I remember are The Last Days of Old Beijing (former Peace Corps volunteer who worked at a school in Beijing, he wrote an even better book later, after he moved to the rural north, called In Manchuria), Leftover Women, and Factory Girls. In case you want something to read on the flight. The last two are women-focused, but give great general insight into the interaction between traditonal culture and modern social mobility.
Good luck in China, hope you enjoy it! It can be a hard place to travel, but sticking to one city you should avoid most of that. Just make sure you have one of the good apps for translating menus ;)
If you haven’t read Orphan Master’s Son or Pachinko yet, they’d make great companions on your Korea leg.
Since you are so much into the intellectual pursuits I would be interested in your future article, "Why I Am A (Roman) Catholic. Seriously.
Yes. I need to write this. Which will effectively be part 2 of the “who are you really?)
I really enjoy your perspective on things. Thank you for the book recommendations!
Have you been to Beijing before? I'll be curious to read your thoughts.
I flew Turkish Airlines to Istanbul in 1991. As you know, in Turkish it is Turk Hava Yolari or THY, which we deemed They Hate You airlines: "They hate to fly and it shows." No food or water was served for the entire flight - apparently this was normal bcs all the Turks knew to pack rations. Everyone was smoking. The air circulation was substandard and it was so hot in there. And someone had chickens in the overhead. But my hands were regularly doused with Limon Kolonya, so, you know, it was all ok.
I studied philosophy in grad school and now write/edit for a living, so I can confidently say that if you felt bogged down while reading After Virtue, it was MacIntyre's problem, not yours.
Reading After Virtue is like walking through a snowdrift, eg lines such as "Aristotle's teleology presupposes a metaphysical biology." <insert eyeroll emoji> I want to tell philosophers who write like this, "So you clearly don't want people to read your work. Or are you trying to make the reader feel dumb?" So many phil. writers like MacIntyre obscure already complex ideas with unnecessarily dense wordsmithing. It's unfortunate.
Yes. Clarity is not his strength. When he tries to use examples to flesh out his ideas, they end up being more confusing than enlightening -- which is a writing sin!
But if they don't help elucidate, they do make it very compelling. IMO, there's little philosophy as exciting as MacIntyre. If you ever want a reading partner on this, feel free to reach out. I've also stumbled through this multiple times, and its the type of thing that benefits from a close read and talking through.
Yes more book recommendations. The country of Georgia gets little attention ; you can change that a little: the birthplace of Stalin and, Georgians insist, of wine as well; located on the Old Silk Road; with a language and alphabet unknown elsewhere; balanced unhappily between Russia and the West; you should visit.
India too