In 2001 my son and I were in Hobart, Tasmania. As our cab driver passed by the local McDonalds, he noted “and there is the American embassy.” Since then, I have refered to “Maccas” (Australian slang for McDonalds) as the American embassy. So true and in ways I didn’t really appreciate until reading Chris’ book and now Gary He.
Maccas is definitely drive-through here in Australia, not a social space. The main concession to Australian tastes has been offering espresso coffee, though the claim that the kids making it are "baristas" is a stretch. Fortunately for them, it's not core business, unlike Starbucks which has flopped. Quite literally, there are more cafes within a 5 minute walk of my (beachside suburb) home than there are Starbucks in my entire state of Queensland.
Thank you for another great read. I always appreciate your reflections on McDonald’s and its role in American society. I have my own small memory of it serving as a brief sanctuary over two decades ago. In the summer of 2001, during my break from college in Istanbul, I worked at Six Flags in Illinois in search of a bit of adventure. Toward the end of my stay, just before I was set to return to Turkey, I decided to fly to LA to visit friends, with a late evening flight from Chicago on September 10th. Of course, I had no idea the world would change forever just a few hours after I landed.
While I could strongly relate to the grief and shock the terror attacks caused (especially coming from my part of the world) I was too young, too hopeful, too naive and honestly too selfish to fully grasp the magnitude of what had happened, how it would change the world, or what it meant to be in the US at that time as someone from a Muslim country. Due to flight issues, I had to stay in the US for another month, eventually returned to Chicago and still had my job at Six Flags, which by then was only open for private events. They put me up in a nearby motel, and there was a McDonald’s right off the highway on the way to the park. With nothing else around, I quickly developed the habit of walking there every morning for coffee and a breakfast sandwich, sitting for a few quiet hours by myself, blending in as a visitor in a country that had just been shaken to its core by events that would go on to define a still-unresolved tension with my part of the world. I remember those hours as the best part of my day, with a strange sense of warmth brought on by familiarity and ordinariness, and how it somehow felt easier to be fully on my own when surrounded by human energy in a space that felt safe, even if I did not talk to anyone.
While I probably haven’t visited a McDonald’s in ages, I always think of that time whenever I walk past one. I feel like it played a small part in my otherwise ordinary coming-of-age story.
That is such a strong memory, and I can almost smell that McDonald's, and the walk each morning to it.
I still spend my mornings at my local McDonald's when at home -- If the weather permits in the summer, I walk the 3 miles to it at 5 am, when it's still cool. I love the "warmth brought on by familiarity and ordinariness", what a nice description.,
Funny, when I'm in istanbul I have my bakery I go to each morning, and would never go to a McDonald's, so that is why I found Gary's book so interesting.
PS: I would love to read the full story about a young Turkish woman working at the six flags in Illinois around 9/11. What a strange period of time, but also, what a strange (in that it is so very "normal") place for an intro into US culture.
Did you work the waterflume? Or a concession stand?
I worked at a concession stand selling corn dogs, which I had no idea what they were until I started selling them. 😊 I’d already spent a year in the U.S. as a high school exchange student at 16, but as noted, I wasn’t exactly adventurous when it came to food (if you can even call American cuisine an adventure ☺️). On our days off, we could ride everything for free, but roller coasters scared me so much that I just ended up photographing them instead.
Honestly, it hadn’t even occurred to me that my country of origin could be an issue, until an American loved one in told a friend I was visiting in LA to keep an eye on me and stay at home as much as possible. But I don’t remember facing any hostility at that specific time (but I cannot speak for others experience as I never wore anything (like headscarf) that would signal my religion and origin). I was just in a shock like anyone else without the level of maturity or knowledge to grasp the bigger picture and what a dividing issue religion would increasingly become in the following decades due to both world events and our own domestic political developments.
Honestly, I’m not even sure if McDonald’s in Turkey has a breakfast menu. they’d probably have to serve simit and tea. ☺️ Despite our love for travel, we’re one of those countries that’s a bit obsessed with our own food and fairly resistant to alternatives. (Dunkin’ Donuts had to shut down pretty quickly.)
What I didn't write -- but alluded to -- I will never eat McDonald's version of local food. I love Simit, oe of my favorite things in the world and one of the rare times I let myself eat a lot of "empty carbs". I would never eat one from McDonald's when I can get it from my local bakery where it is sometimes still hot out of oven!
Oh, even though I said I had not visited McDonald’s in ages, I actually went to one just last December in Bohol, Philippines. I went with a Japanese colleague who ordered some Asian rice dish while I ordered a cheeseburger. I made a little fun of her, noting she would be the only one eating an Asian dish in McDonald’s. But when we looked around, I was the only one eating a burger, every other person enjoying some strange McDonald's version of an Asian dish!
I taught English in Japan in the early 1980s. One day one of my students wanted to take me out to dinner. He ended up taking me to a local McDonald's. In the course of the meal he asked me in Japanese" Do you have McDonald's in the United States??"
He wasn't joking. And was surprised to learn that indeed we do.
I've posted comments about McDonald's history in Hong Kong before when you mentioned it's role, so I won't repeat the details here. However your mention of localization is in part due to McDonalds picking very strong master franchise firms, and then developing the systems and culture to let them work within the system. Does Gary cover the role of these national/area master franchisees in the book, and the personalities of some of the important ones?
Great post, Chris. I loved Dignity and I'm sure I'll love Gary's book.
I totally agree that McDonald's and their role is far more sophisticated than many may believe, especially overseas franchises. When I lived in Argentina twenty years ago, the McDonalds were fairly upscale, a place where the middle class and aspiring middle class would go to differentiate themselves. I also remember that when I was in Europe, the McDonald's in each country had menus tailored to local tastes, which is how I wound up getting some sort of caprese meal at the Rome train station. And don't forget Le Big Mac!
Great interview. Excited to get the book. I ate more McDonalds living in Ireland and traveling through Europe than back home. I always went when I was feeling homesick. I was only 19.
I don't know if you've addressed this and I missed it, but I have been curious to know if automating McDonald's has changed the morning cultures in the ones that are meeting places for retired folks. when I have been in McD's that were Gossip Sessions for the Seniors, the workers got to know the customers and would occasionally sneak out and refill cups. The new designs have the pick up counter so far removed from the customers that I would think it kills the intimacy.
To some degree it has, but Covid probably did more than anything to change the mood inside. They haven't fully recovered, but the redesigns and the machines haven't helped.
The regulars and workers getting along is still a thing -- I doubt that will never change, even with the machines.
I have a question that I promise is not trolling, but genuine: do you think Starbuck's might be emerging as the new "global American fast food chain"? Or at least eating into McDonald's influence? Thank you for this fascinating interview! Your book looks great.
I didn't know you were known as "that McDonald's guy," and although I appreciate this new view you offer, I'm pretty shocked (which is good thing).
I get the nostalgia and utility that McDonald's can represent, but that doesn't change the fact that McDonald's flattens food culture and has a horrendous impact on people's health and the environment. Yes, the regional foods that are sometimes spread have some value, but they're exceptions, not the rule. The vast majority of their menu pushes the same sweet-fat-salt profile across the globe, designed for addiction.
It's not that local culture is erased overnight, but it's tweaked just enough to feel local while still keeping the brand intact. I don't think that's cultural exchange but market-tested adaptation. And when people start understanding a croissant through McCafé or a samosa through a Happy Meal, the original thing (its context, its craft) loses ground.
I also couldn't help but think about all your writing about European cities being ruined by homogenized BS, especially in the plazas. McDonalds buys up all the best real estate. Now you get a glowing McDonald's sign facing a 17th-century church. It's not just about aesthetics but about who controls the space. That's not a commons; it's a retail environment dressed up as a refuge.
Yet, I haven't read the book, so maybe my viewpoint will change. Either way, thanks for challenging some of my ideas about McDonald's.
McDonald's isn't out there as this thing that comes in and pushes things around. As I found in the US, and Gary found overseas (and I also have seen), people want a McDonald's. His scene in Saudi Arabia of people waiting for sunset to dig into their Big Macs is something I saw in Tashkent, but with a Burger King. The people I spoke to wanted a McDonald's. They asked me to help them get one!
I'm not a globalist -- I respect local culture -- but part of local culture is wanting what others have.
Having personally eaten at McDonald’s in seventeen countries, including eleven with my daughter, I was delighted to see this fun article pop up in my inbox this morning. I began the McDonald’s travel tradition during the years my family lived abroad in South Korea and I traveled extensively with my daughter who was aged 8-12 during those years. She has continued the tradition as a college student; stopping by the Golden Arches while in London on her first international trip without me. And I’ve continued it without her, making the stop at every country with the restaurant during my first trip to Europe earlier this year.
We originally began this tradition as a way for my then young child to see how different cultures interpreted the idea of Americanized food, but it came to be something far greater. In so many places some of our meaningful interactions with local folks, particularly children, would happen at either McDonald’s or the local playground. Such moments were always such a profound reminder of how children are children no matter where you go.
Thank you for sharing about this book. I will be sure to be picking up a copy soon!
Honestly speaking, I’ve hated McDonald’s for decades. The first hamburger I ate there in 1972 upset my stomach, as did the few I ate over the next several years until I started avoiding them all together. Once I was in Vienna and happened upon an absolutely beautiful McDonald’s, so I stopped in for breakfast, which was great. Then I went to McDonald’s in Moscow in 2010, when the staff had to be trained to smile. I live in Tokyo and have stopped into my local McDonald’s a few times, but I flee as soon as possible. I very much appreciate your sociological views of McDonald’s and the book recommendation. Although McDonald’s is not at all my cup of tea, I am glad to understand its value in the world.
In 2001 my son and I were in Hobart, Tasmania. As our cab driver passed by the local McDonalds, he noted “and there is the American embassy.” Since then, I have refered to “Maccas” (Australian slang for McDonalds) as the American embassy. So true and in ways I didn’t really appreciate until reading Chris’ book and now Gary He.
“
Maccas is definitely drive-through here in Australia, not a social space. The main concession to Australian tastes has been offering espresso coffee, though the claim that the kids making it are "baristas" is a stretch. Fortunately for them, it's not core business, unlike Starbucks which has flopped. Quite literally, there are more cafes within a 5 minute walk of my (beachside suburb) home than there are Starbucks in my entire state of Queensland.
Thank you for another great read. I always appreciate your reflections on McDonald’s and its role in American society. I have my own small memory of it serving as a brief sanctuary over two decades ago. In the summer of 2001, during my break from college in Istanbul, I worked at Six Flags in Illinois in search of a bit of adventure. Toward the end of my stay, just before I was set to return to Turkey, I decided to fly to LA to visit friends, with a late evening flight from Chicago on September 10th. Of course, I had no idea the world would change forever just a few hours after I landed.
While I could strongly relate to the grief and shock the terror attacks caused (especially coming from my part of the world) I was too young, too hopeful, too naive and honestly too selfish to fully grasp the magnitude of what had happened, how it would change the world, or what it meant to be in the US at that time as someone from a Muslim country. Due to flight issues, I had to stay in the US for another month, eventually returned to Chicago and still had my job at Six Flags, which by then was only open for private events. They put me up in a nearby motel, and there was a McDonald’s right off the highway on the way to the park. With nothing else around, I quickly developed the habit of walking there every morning for coffee and a breakfast sandwich, sitting for a few quiet hours by myself, blending in as a visitor in a country that had just been shaken to its core by events that would go on to define a still-unresolved tension with my part of the world. I remember those hours as the best part of my day, with a strange sense of warmth brought on by familiarity and ordinariness, and how it somehow felt easier to be fully on my own when surrounded by human energy in a space that felt safe, even if I did not talk to anyone.
While I probably haven’t visited a McDonald’s in ages, I always think of that time whenever I walk past one. I feel like it played a small part in my otherwise ordinary coming-of-age story.
That is such a strong memory, and I can almost smell that McDonald's, and the walk each morning to it.
I still spend my mornings at my local McDonald's when at home -- If the weather permits in the summer, I walk the 3 miles to it at 5 am, when it's still cool. I love the "warmth brought on by familiarity and ordinariness", what a nice description.,
Funny, when I'm in istanbul I have my bakery I go to each morning, and would never go to a McDonald's, so that is why I found Gary's book so interesting.
PS: I would love to read the full story about a young Turkish woman working at the six flags in Illinois around 9/11. What a strange period of time, but also, what a strange (in that it is so very "normal") place for an intro into US culture.
Did you work the waterflume? Or a concession stand?
I worked at a concession stand selling corn dogs, which I had no idea what they were until I started selling them. 😊 I’d already spent a year in the U.S. as a high school exchange student at 16, but as noted, I wasn’t exactly adventurous when it came to food (if you can even call American cuisine an adventure ☺️). On our days off, we could ride everything for free, but roller coasters scared me so much that I just ended up photographing them instead.
Honestly, it hadn’t even occurred to me that my country of origin could be an issue, until an American loved one in told a friend I was visiting in LA to keep an eye on me and stay at home as much as possible. But I don’t remember facing any hostility at that specific time (but I cannot speak for others experience as I never wore anything (like headscarf) that would signal my religion and origin). I was just in a shock like anyone else without the level of maturity or knowledge to grasp the bigger picture and what a dividing issue religion would increasingly become in the following decades due to both world events and our own domestic political developments.
Honestly, I’m not even sure if McDonald’s in Turkey has a breakfast menu. they’d probably have to serve simit and tea. ☺️ Despite our love for travel, we’re one of those countries that’s a bit obsessed with our own food and fairly resistant to alternatives. (Dunkin’ Donuts had to shut down pretty quickly.)
Gary has a picture of the McDonald's Simit in his book!
Oh wow! I knew Starbucks Turkey had it but had no idea about McDonald’s.
What I didn't write -- but alluded to -- I will never eat McDonald's version of local food. I love Simit, oe of my favorite things in the world and one of the rare times I let myself eat a lot of "empty carbs". I would never eat one from McDonald's when I can get it from my local bakery where it is sometimes still hot out of oven!
Oh, even though I said I had not visited McDonald’s in ages, I actually went to one just last December in Bohol, Philippines. I went with a Japanese colleague who ordered some Asian rice dish while I ordered a cheeseburger. I made a little fun of her, noting she would be the only one eating an Asian dish in McDonald’s. But when we looked around, I was the only one eating a burger, every other person enjoying some strange McDonald's version of an Asian dish!
I taught English in Japan in the early 1980s. One day one of my students wanted to take me out to dinner. He ended up taking me to a local McDonald's. In the course of the meal he asked me in Japanese" Do you have McDonald's in the United States??"
He wasn't joking. And was surprised to learn that indeed we do.
Ok. I laughed out loud, because I can see it. LOL.
I've posted comments about McDonald's history in Hong Kong before when you mentioned it's role, so I won't repeat the details here. However your mention of localization is in part due to McDonalds picking very strong master franchise firms, and then developing the systems and culture to let them work within the system. Does Gary cover the role of these national/area master franchisees in the book, and the personalities of some of the important ones?
Just. Wonderful.
Great post, Chris. I loved Dignity and I'm sure I'll love Gary's book.
I totally agree that McDonald's and their role is far more sophisticated than many may believe, especially overseas franchises. When I lived in Argentina twenty years ago, the McDonalds were fairly upscale, a place where the middle class and aspiring middle class would go to differentiate themselves. I also remember that when I was in Europe, the McDonald's in each country had menus tailored to local tastes, which is how I wound up getting some sort of caprese meal at the Rome train station. And don't forget Le Big Mac!
Great interview. Excited to get the book. I ate more McDonalds living in Ireland and traveling through Europe than back home. I always went when I was feeling homesick. I was only 19.
I don't know if you've addressed this and I missed it, but I have been curious to know if automating McDonald's has changed the morning cultures in the ones that are meeting places for retired folks. when I have been in McD's that were Gossip Sessions for the Seniors, the workers got to know the customers and would occasionally sneak out and refill cups. The new designs have the pick up counter so far removed from the customers that I would think it kills the intimacy.
To some degree it has, but Covid probably did more than anything to change the mood inside. They haven't fully recovered, but the redesigns and the machines haven't helped.
The regulars and workers getting along is still a thing -- I doubt that will never change, even with the machines.
I have a question that I promise is not trolling, but genuine: do you think Starbuck's might be emerging as the new "global American fast food chain"? Or at least eating into McDonald's influence? Thank you for this fascinating interview! Your book looks great.
Peak Starbucks has passed in China. I would not be surprised if it happened elsewhere since their supply chain is much simpler to not only copy, but apparently easier to improve upon (https://kdwalmsley.substack.com/p/investor-alert-china-is-drinking).
McDonalds corporate business is logistics.
I didn't know you were known as "that McDonald's guy," and although I appreciate this new view you offer, I'm pretty shocked (which is good thing).
I get the nostalgia and utility that McDonald's can represent, but that doesn't change the fact that McDonald's flattens food culture and has a horrendous impact on people's health and the environment. Yes, the regional foods that are sometimes spread have some value, but they're exceptions, not the rule. The vast majority of their menu pushes the same sweet-fat-salt profile across the globe, designed for addiction.
It's not that local culture is erased overnight, but it's tweaked just enough to feel local while still keeping the brand intact. I don't think that's cultural exchange but market-tested adaptation. And when people start understanding a croissant through McCafé or a samosa through a Happy Meal, the original thing (its context, its craft) loses ground.
I also couldn't help but think about all your writing about European cities being ruined by homogenized BS, especially in the plazas. McDonalds buys up all the best real estate. Now you get a glowing McDonald's sign facing a 17th-century church. It's not just about aesthetics but about who controls the space. That's not a commons; it's a retail environment dressed up as a refuge.
Yet, I haven't read the book, so maybe my viewpoint will change. Either way, thanks for challenging some of my ideas about McDonald's.
McDonald's isn't out there as this thing that comes in and pushes things around. As I found in the US, and Gary found overseas (and I also have seen), people want a McDonald's. His scene in Saudi Arabia of people waiting for sunset to dig into their Big Macs is something I saw in Tashkent, but with a Burger King. The people I spoke to wanted a McDonald's. They asked me to help them get one!
I'm not a globalist -- I respect local culture -- but part of local culture is wanting what others have.
I wanted to edit to say, "Isn't only a thing" -- they no doubt are pushy and have corporate weight that they do throw around!
A Méqui crawl could be a fun option to walk São Paulo 😅
Having personally eaten at McDonald’s in seventeen countries, including eleven with my daughter, I was delighted to see this fun article pop up in my inbox this morning. I began the McDonald’s travel tradition during the years my family lived abroad in South Korea and I traveled extensively with my daughter who was aged 8-12 during those years. She has continued the tradition as a college student; stopping by the Golden Arches while in London on her first international trip without me. And I’ve continued it without her, making the stop at every country with the restaurant during my first trip to Europe earlier this year.
We originally began this tradition as a way for my then young child to see how different cultures interpreted the idea of Americanized food, but it came to be something far greater. In so many places some of our meaningful interactions with local folks, particularly children, would happen at either McDonald’s or the local playground. Such moments were always such a profound reminder of how children are children no matter where you go.
Thank you for sharing about this book. I will be sure to be picking up a copy soon!
Honestly speaking, I’ve hated McDonald’s for decades. The first hamburger I ate there in 1972 upset my stomach, as did the few I ate over the next several years until I started avoiding them all together. Once I was in Vienna and happened upon an absolutely beautiful McDonald’s, so I stopped in for breakfast, which was great. Then I went to McDonald’s in Moscow in 2010, when the staff had to be trained to smile. I live in Tokyo and have stopped into my local McDonald’s a few times, but I flee as soon as possible. I very much appreciate your sociological views of McDonald’s and the book recommendation. Although McDonald’s is not at all my cup of tea, I am glad to understand its value in the world.
Hey. There is a reason I don't go into McDonald's overseas, especially in Japan. There are simply so many other options.
I did find what is perhaps the ugliest McDonald's in Hokkaido!
Yes, it’s puzzling to me because Japanese aesthetics can be so refined.
I can't add the photo in here, for some reasons, but boy oh boy was it ugly....
Could you send me a photo by email? I’m so curious!
done
I’ve been searching for Hokkaido McDonald’s on the internet but haven’t found a particularly ugly one yet.